# I like velcro and used to drink Tang, but about the moon, was NASA really full of horseshit?

I like velcro and used to drink Tang, but about the moon, was NASA really full of horseshit?:

I remember being home on leave from Vietnam and watching the President on television.
He was telling Americans that US forces were not operating in Cambodia.
The US Army had taught me well how to use a compass and a map.
I had just been operating in Cambodia for many weeks.

– A veteran friend of mine
that doesn’t live in a multi-million dollar house
and doesn’t get big-fat government checks

There are many conspiracy theories about the moon landing, but this article deals only with mine, personally, which is a math problem I need your help to solve. We have some smart people on zerohedge, and access to much better computers than they had in the 60’s.  We should be able to do the math.

I have sat in a Lunar Lander, a few years back in Houston, before NASA hung it way up high on the ceiling, where you cannot get close to it.

It is tiny, especially considering that it is a two-stage space craft, with two separate and complete engines.

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/LM09_Main_Propulsion_ppMP1-22.pdf

The lower stage, below the landing legs’ top attachment points, is covered in foil (why foil I do not know).  It houses one of the Lunar Lander’s two main rocket engines and the fuel to decelerate the spacecraft from orbital speed (____velocity), and then to land the space craft and its payload (____ mass) gently on the moon without injuring or killing the two government workers inside, unlike these objects.

The upper stage, housing the two aforementioned government workers, also contains a second complete rocket engine, and its fuel, (____ mass).  It separates from the lower stage and accelerates back up into lunar orbit.

I examined the size of the ascent and descent engines, as well as the size of the alleged fuel storage.  It seemed to both me and my kids, intuitively, to be less than credible, even considering that the moon’s gravity is 1/6 of the Earth.  Our doubts were reinforced by the massive size of the Saturn V rocket on display, which is described as a giant flying fuel tank.

The size of the lunar lander is of course limited by the fact that they had to fit it in the top of a Saturn V rocket and get it into orbit, along with the Command Capsule and Service Module.

I will concede the fact that they got it up into Earth orbit.  Sure.  There were plenty of eye witnesses at Cape Kennedy.

But down to the moon’s surface, landing soft enough to not injure or kill the astronauts, and then back up into lunar orbit?  Come on!  What was Kennedy thinking?  There is no atmosphere on the moon to brake against.  That requires a lot of fuel.  No?  The little toy-sized Mars Rovers supposedly bounced along forever even with an atmosphere, parachute, and retro rockets.

Here is the math problem:

How much fuel, really, and how big would the fuel storage really need to be, for each of the two lunar lander stages ____ cm2?   Do these amounts really fit into the space of the fuel vessels shown here

Remember, there is no margin for error, as there are two lives at stake, and the credibility of the United States government.  Show your work.

Unfortunately, we really need to do this math, because NASA erased or lost the original film from the surface of the moon, so we cannot use modern analysis on the original high-resolution 2 1/4″ negatives, and the eye-witness government workers that allegedly landed on the moon cannot be trusted, considering that they all live in multi-million dollar homes (I have personally been in one in the foothills of Colorado SW of Denver) and they have received big-fat government paychecks over the last 50+ years, not to mention their credibility as people.

Also, nobody has landed a man softly on the moon and returned him, again, in almost 50 years, with much better technology. What do we call a scientific experiment that is not repeatable by others?

Finally, the amazing Hubble space telescope that is really just a re-purposed spy satellite, is supposedly unable to see the objects that we allegedly left on the moon, like the moon car, but yet we can read the license plate of cars on Earth, through a thick atmosphere.

Any takers that are not NASA employees?  I will trust a Wall Street quant before I trust a government employee.  It’s not like this is rocket science.

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### 2 thoughts on “I like velcro and used to drink Tang, but about the moon, was NASA really full of horseshit?”

1. Lorenzo

And a small boy in the crowd shouted ” But the Emperor has no clothes! ” as the crowd continued to cheer the resplendent naked figure.
Says it all! People believe what they are told. All NASA funds go into developing instruments of war. PTB are stupid really because if they told the truth, dumb folks would still give their tax dollars to the NASA cause. I suppose once you start the lie you have to continue it.
Good article by somebody with intuition and critical thinking…….. as George Carlin said, ” they don’t want people around like that “

2. Gambler

I am also a vet, from a later war, and I also don’t believe everything thing the government tells me, but sorry we went to the moon. Part of my military job involved missiles and I too have been in “mock up” lunar lander from the Apollo era. Just because the LEM (Lunar Excursion Module) has tiny tanks compaired to the Saturn V doesn’t mean it couldn’t land two astronauts on the lunar surface and return them to the orbiting Apollo spacecraft.

The LEM was made “just” strong enough to accomplish its mission: aka it was very light. Secondly the landing rocket was not firing at 100% power all the time. Also the specific thrust impulse of the fuel (amount power per amount of fuel used) was quite high, meaning you didn’t need to carry a lot of fuel. So NASA put just enough fuel into the LEM (plus and extra minute or so of reserve fuel in LEM to get it down to the lunar surface. Finally unlike the earth you can orbit the moon much closer than you can the Earth. 40 to 60 nautical mile I think is where the Apollo spacecraft orbited the moon so the LEM didn’t have go as far to reach orbit and it didn’t have to reach a velocity nearly as fast as the Saturn V had to go to orbit the Earth. So it didn’t need as much fuel to get the delta V (change in velocity) to get down to the lunar surface and back into orbit.

As for the Hubble not being able to see the remaing equipment at the lunar landing sites, while Hubble’s basic design was based on the old Keyhole recon sattelite, it purpose was to look far out into the universe not look at things only a few hundred thousand miles away. The focus to the telescope could never see anything clearly that close to it. However, less powerfull telescopes like the one I use can see the lunar landing sites. And yes I have see the Lunar Rover and the LEM’s desent stage still siting there. I couldn’t count the stars on the flags that were erected to the surface or see individual footprints but you could tell what was the LEM and what was a Lunar Rover. And there are plenty of pictures of the lunar landing sites taken from the earth and from moon orbiting sattelites on the net.

While I think it is good to be skeptical in many of the things our government and collages teach us I think people can get to caught up in conspiracy theories. I KNOW the public is not being told every little detail and the absolute truth about every thing our government does. I KNOW our government isn’t the mom and apple pie, equality and freedom, and you are able to go as far as talent and drive can take you, that is taught in elementary school social studies. The USA has its dark and ugly side as well and the government and it has its secrets. Mostly keep other nations from knowing what we know and others because “We can’t handle the truth.” But, sorry folks the Apollo moon landings happened in late 1960’s-early 70s.

But, don’t worry in 200 years no one will remember WWII, Vietnam, the civil rights or equal rights movements and the facts about JFK, LBJ, MLK, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton will be as nebulous as the facts we remember about Washington, Lincoln the American Revolution and the Civil War. The people and the events will be distorted and romanticized by the opinion of scholars and historians. Facts become history, then legend, then myth. The truth lost to time.